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November 10, 2005 09:00 AM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 52 Comments
  • by: Red Hawk

We’re almost there.

And remember, there’s a big vote tomorrow…Round 7 of Survivor! Colorado Pols Style concludes.

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52 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

  1. Ken Salazar’s attempt to get a unified endorsement of Bill Ritter has stopped.  Too much resistance to the Ritter candidacy.  Too many key players (read the 527 folks) were not comfortable with Ritter.  The word now is that all three of the top names in the state (Hick, Salazar himself and Udall) are again being approached about getting in the race.

    If that effort does not come to fruition, then you will see a serious effort to get some other Democrat in the race.  Romanoff, Thiebaut, perhaps Ken Gordon.  There might even be conversations with Joan Fitz-Gerald again.

    One way or another, Ritter will face an opponent, and one that may have all the 527’s supporting him (or her).

  3. And today, a site to draft Speaker of the House Andrew Romanoff for governor has popped up.

    Imaginatively, it is named draftromanoff.com.

    Has an email list to make a financial pledge…

  4. If Tim Kaine…who has pretty much the exact same profile as Bill Ritter…chose to run for governor in CO instead of VA, the geniuses in CO that value ideological purity over the ability to win would have run him out of state.

  5. The difference between Kaine and Ritter is that Kaine promised to keep his religion out of his politics, at least on a woman’s right to choose.

    Ritter went the extra step over Kerry, Kaine and other Christian Democrats – he said he would sign an anti-choice bill into law if it was put before him.

  6. Great article from The Weekly Standard, I highly encourage you all to read it… it’s well worth the time.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/312korit.asp?pg=2

    the highlight for me,
    “But another, still bolder choice would be to remove all families earning less than $100,000 from the tax rolls. For those who want to see a daring tax reform that leaves an impression in voters’ minds and pocketbooks, this would be an avenue worth exploring.

    Recall that the income tax was originally designed as a single-rate tax on a relatively small number of high earners. We still have something like it today, in the form of the alternative minimum tax (AMT), which was designed to ensure that the affluent pay at least some income tax. Bush’s tax commission has called for the abolition of the AMT, which isn’t indexed to inflation and will start biting into middle-class paychecks within the decade. But perhaps the GOP should consider an alternative: Why not reform the AMT and abolish the regular income tax instead?”

  7. Heavens to Betsy, you mean Ritter might actually act on his stated principles instead of trying to have it both ways, talking right and voting left?
    The horror, the horror.

  9. A follow-up to yesterday’s questions to Rep. Degette re: blogging regulation…

    Today, DailyKos and RedState got together and signed this letter to Congress urging defeat of HR4194, the Shays-Meehan Internet Political Speech Stifling Bill of 2005.

    Among the points the letter makes:
    * 4194 would force any site spending over $1000 per year on expenses (bandwidth, servers) to file as a political organization.  This covers every large blog on the Internet.
    * 4194 is exclusionary – everything outside a defined set of technologies and expenses is considered political organizing.  Podcasting, wikis, new technologies – all subject to election law.
    * 4194 doesn’t really help bloggers – it forces them to seek legal and tax advice to ensure they’re not regulated…

    I think as active bloggers we can all agree – this site isn’t a political campaigning site, it’s a discussion site.  It shouldn’t fall under election regulations – but it might under 4194 depending on the server/bandwidth costs…  Time to start a campaign to our Congresspeople?

  10. Ed Perlmutter Calls on Rick O’Donnell to Release Cheney Fundraiser Information

    (Golden) — Today, Ed Perlmutter, Democratic candidate for Colorado’s 7th Congressional District, called on Rick O’Donnell to release financial information related to the Dick Cheney fundraiser two weeks ago.

    Perlmutter is asking O’Donnell to answer the following questions:

    1. How much did the Cheney fundraiser cost the taxpayers?
    2. Are you planning to reimburse taxpayers for those costs?
    3. What is your timetable for reimbursement?

    “I believe the taxpayers of Colorado have a right to know if their hard-earned money was used to subsidize Dick Cheney’s fundraising trip, for which Rick O.Donnell temporarily interrupted his three week tour of Europe,” said Perlmutter. “Now that Rick is back from his tour of Europe, I call on him to answer these questions.”

  11. Aw, leave them alone Voyageur. When DEMs go at it like this, it’s like watching an Aztec ball game… The ball court will flow with spilled blood before it’s all over.

  12. Voyageur,

    I think that Kerry and Kaine act on a set of principles as well: that their religious beliefs are not necessarily those of their fellow citizens, and that the Founding Fathers realized the conflicts inherent in forcing religious beliefs on others.

    If every politician in this country pandered to their varied religious mores, we would have no dancing, no card playing, no alcohol, covered women who stayed at home, no medical services, no psych(olog/iatr)ists, no science, wars over whether we should ever have wars, and an inability to kill even the most infected mosquitos.

  13. Are we all pretending we don’t know it’s Dan Willis behind the Draft Romanoff website and effort?
    Dan who recently said on this blog he’d get behind a Draft Romanoff campaign. Dan who said on this blog that if Andrew gets in the Gov race he is ready to be annointed candidate and eventual king of D-6. Fairly transparent Dan. Also very self serving.

  15. Hi folks, I actually learned of the Draft Romanoff website from the message above. I have not even had time yet to check it out. I had been told pretty solidly last week that Romanoff is not willing to be drafted, so I had abandoned the idea.

    But I knew there many many others who wanted to pursue it so good for them. I have no idea who is behind the site. There are a few “draft Romanoff” buttons floating around from a few weeks ago (they are the blue ones with the Uncle Sam/”I want you picture” on them). Those I will claim. Though, if I was a PI and wanted to get to the bottom of it, I would start with Rutt Bridges. He was the only person who I talked to who found the thought of a “draft Romanoff” interesting (his word).

    The fact that there are now two active draft campaigns should send a strong message to Ritter about his appeal to us Dems. I think he should seriously look at running for AG instead.

  20. The more I hear about the Dem party elites’ dislike of Ritter, the more I like him.  Too many good men have been kept out of the Dem leadership because of the abortion rights’ fundies.

    Much as pro-choicers would like to pretend otherwise, opposition to abortion isn’t just a “religious thang.” There are strong philosophical cases against it, as well.  A pity some think the abortion license should be infinitely safer than the babe in her mother’s womb.

  21. Wanted to pause for a moment and say “thank you” to all who made the new USO room at DIA a possibility.  The reception this morning had both Democrat and Republican feeling good about this country and the men and women in our armed services.

  22. Ritter’s problems are not with the Dem’s “elite” as you call them, but with the rank and file active Dem campaign workers and volunteers. And as I have stated here several times, my opposition to Ritter has little to do with his stance on choice issues (although they do cause me concern).

    BTW have since seen the Draft Romanoff site. All I have to say is look at it and then look at mine. My “homemade” site is clearly not the same calibre. If anyone out with web skills there would like to volunteer, my site is begging for your help! 🙂

  23. Danny, nothing without the deity would be Nil Sine Deus.  Nil Sine Numine, which you rightly say is Colorado’s state motto, means nothing without providence.

  24. Republican’s pulled the budget bill today – they didn’t have the votes to pass the bill that would have cut $50 billion in Medicaid, Food Stamps, and Student Loans.

    Without DeLay breaking arms down there it looks like some moderates actually found their backbones. I’m sure that Bush’s numbers being in the tank gave some moderate Republican’s good reason to stand up to the White House on this one.

    great news…

  25. Ritter’s problem is with the Democrat elites; that is the far left elites.  Help me understand this Ritter polls better than any of the Republican challengers and he is not electable.  Ritter gets decent fundraising numbers and he is not electable.  Ritter has pro-choice and pro-life people actively working for him and he views do not work.  Ritter’s views are in line with comments from people like Dean and Clinton about what is needed in the Democratic Party and he is unelectable.  High profile Democratic leadership consistently steps aside and Ritter gets praise; yes he is not electable.

    Now I could be wrong; if there was not a groundswell that is countering the nay sayers then it might be easier to say that Ritter is not electable.  However the bi-partisan groundswell is saying that Ritter is electable; what could this mean?  It means that he is electable.

    Here is why Bill can garner state wide votes:

    Native Coloradoan
    Started off with nothing and worked his way up
    Farming Background
    His family had to come up from welfare
    Worked in the union
    Tough on Crime
    Has established and credible values (Reference: Salazar)
    Has the support of the minority community
    Has good state wide name recognition
    Worked hard for Referenda C passage

    Now I can understand why some of the Left will have problems electing a former DA.  Yet the Republicans do not have this same issue or therefore lack of success.  Given it always nicer to have candidates fit into specific boxes but how important is winning anyway?

  26. O.k., I’m already getting phone calls from the Colorado State Employees Union telling me (actually, telling my answering machine) that now that Ref C has passed, they are going to be fighting to get the legislature to increase salaries and health benefits for all state employee’s.

    It appears that the special interests are preparing to stick their pig snouts in the government trough.  I really hope I don’t regret voting for C.

  30. Dan,

    I am the rank and file Democrat you are talking about and I haven’t seen you lay out one thing that would make me reconsider supporting Ritter. 

    And also I do have web development skills that you could desperately use but since you seem so keen on telling me what I am thinking regarding what kind of candidate I would support then why don’t you tell me what my answer will be when I consider helping you with your website.

  32. As the saying goes, “giving power and money to a democrat is like giving whiskey and car keys to a teenager.” 

    However, I’m still going to be optimistic and hope cooler heads prevail under the dome.

  33. When one talks of who is or is not supporting any given candidate it can never be read as absolutes, Marshall. Ritter does have some support from ‘rank and file’ Dems, but the question I hear most often when in a room full of Dems is “Who are we REALLY running for Govenor?”.

    If he does not have opposition in the primary, he could possibly win in Nov, but it would be a very hard row to how and I know I am not inclined to campaign for him. Now if he benefits from efforts to turn out Dem votes for other races, then so be it.

  36. I am a State Employee.  Do you guys know benefits CO State workers receive are 50th out of 50th states?  We are DEAD LAST.  I have not received a pay increase in 3 of the past 4 years.  I am 100% serious.  Colorado has completely neglected its state workers.  That is the reality.

  37. State, I know what you mean. I’m not a state employee but I haven’t received a raise since 1999. Been in the same job since 1984. And it is not because I’m not worthy, I am second next to the president in a company with 70 employees. It’s just that times are tough in the service industry too. That is why I was griping before the elections about wanting to keep my TABOR refunds. I too could use some extra cash. I am a firm believer that a solution can be worked out to help you and your fellow employees. But at the same time there isn’t shit out there to bolster my company and boost my pay. And at 49 and being in the same job since I was 28, I’m a little too old to go looking.
    But good luck to you. I hope that the passage of C will send some benefits your way.

  38. Are you not being compensated fairly?  If it is such a bad deal you are free to quit. 

    I am sure there will be pleanty of people willing to take your state job for the market price (AKA what you are being paid now).

  39. I am in complete sympathy with State. The working stiff usually gets the crumbs. The higher ups get the loaf. But on the other hand tomorrow is veteran’s day. But I still have to work. The bright spot is that the traffic will be light with bunches of people being off with pay……

  40. From the blogosphere- A quote and comment- Today 11/10/05

    “Charles Grassley (R-IA):

    You know, what–what makes our economy grow is energy.  And, and Americans are used to going to the gas tank (sic), and when they put that hose in their, uh, tank, and when I do it, I wanna get gas out of it.  And when I turn the light switch on, I want the lights to go on, and I don’t want somebody to tell me I gotta change my way of living to satisfy them. Because this is America, and this is something we’ve worked our way into, and the American people are entitled to it, and if we’re going improve (sic) our standard of living, you have to consume more energy.”

      Thanks for defending big oil, Senator. Your check is in the mail. We just need to use more energy. What a great solution to the problem. It’s fun being an energy addict. I’m sure you can’t wait to get that hose in your hand.

  41. Dan,

    You must be hanging out with different “rank and file” Democrats than me, the Democrats I talk with are way more concerned about fielding at least one candidate against whack job Tancredo in the 6th then worrying about having a smorgasbord of candidates for the governorship.

    Vote For Quimby,

    Yea because the republicans have done such a bang up job with the power they were given.  Republicans drove us into one ditch and then while trying to get us out of the ditch drove us into one on the other side with their incompetence and corruption.  Here how the phrase really goes “I wouldn’t trust Republicans to take care of my plants”

  42. Gecko, thank you. 

    the truth hurts, Are you not being compensated fairly?  No, I am not, my co-workers are not either. 
    I could make plenty more in the private sector doing the exact same job.  However, I have pre-existing medical problems, so switching might cause my health to deteriorate ever further.  I am not asking I get a 10% raise every year. I would like just a cost of living adjustment.  That would be amazing.  I am not asking that CO pays all my benefits, however, it would be fair if they pay something comparable to the private sector.  Colorado is 50th out of 50 States in benefits for state workers.  I am not asking CO is #1, even being 30 out of 50 states would make me happy.  What am I being paid now?  $39,982.  I have a BA degree, a MS degree and I am going to weekend and evening classes to try to obtain a doctorate degree.  I have a family of 5. Am I crazy to want a fair pay raise and fair benefits?  Am I a fat cat?

  43. State Employee,
    You forgot to mention that as a state employee you have much more protection and job security than in the private sector.  You have to really really F-up to get fired in Colorado state service.

    In addition, you forgot to mention your PERA benefits.  This is a defined benefit plan and I have found nothing like this boondoggle in the private sector.

    Like someone else mentioned, if your unhappy working for the state, you have many different options.  Only you can choose your path.

  44. Vote for Quimby,
    I agree that it is harder for a state employee to get fired.  I can tell you that in my office 2 people have been fired after first having received administrative action against them.  Regarding PERA, yes, I would have agreed with you on that as well.  However, this is no longer the case.  PERA is only about 70% funded and after the PERA Commission report, it appears State employees will have to contribute into PERA a lot more and receive less benefits (that is what was recommended I think).  You did not answer my concerns though.  Do State workers not deserve a raise and a fair benefit package?  How would you feel if your employer provided you with the worst benefits of anyone in the country?  I also reported that due to my health conditions it would be very difficult for me to leave my current employment as I have pre-existing conditions that would most likely never be covered with another employer.

  45. Vote for Quimby,
    Does your employer provide you with a 401k retirement plan with a matching contribution?  State workers do not receive a match.  If I wish to put in $100.00 a month into my 401k.  That is it.

  46. Oh please StateEmployee, Employers who match 100% have been a rarity since 9/11. Many businesses did it during the roaring 90s, but when the recession started hitting home after 9/11, it was damb near the first thing cut.

    Try again smart guy.

  47. My company offers a 401K but they contribute zero to it. It is nothing more than a savings account that you add to and that’s it. I feel lucky just to have vacation pay and basic health insurance. (And our health insurance is 50/50 between us and our employer)
    When my first child was born I had to take out a loan to pay for him. A few years later my second child was born and I had to build a deck for the doctor to pay for his services!! When my third and last child was born I luckily was working where I am now and we had just started receiving health benefits. And at that time we didn’t even have vacation pay yet.
    So I am grateful for what I have now and that I get paid $25.00 an hour. I think that is good considering I never went any further than graduating high school.
    Just having a job is something to be thankful for.

  48. State Employee,
    I think you may need to check with your PERA provider or get a refund on the money you have spent on your Master’s degree.

    PERA matches state employee contributes by 50%.  In addition, PERA is a defined benefit, as opposed to a defined contribution, plan.  Meaning, you will get a guaranteed payout amount upon retirement regardless of the economy or financial stability of PERA.  So in other words, future Colorado taxpayers are going to be held responsible for your retirement whether PERA has earned the money or not.

    In addition, you are able to contribute to a state approved 457 account utilizing pretax dollars. 

    I hope, while your shoveling that last donut down your mouth waiting for the small hand on the clock to hit five, you think about what you really have. 

    So bitch all you want about your job, but don’t expect any sympathy from me during this “fiscal crisis.”

  49. Most state employees work damn hard, Quimby, so lose the doughnut line.  I know some of the corrections officers at Canon City and if they watch the clock, they can get a shiv in the ribs.  Still, even you forgot the best part of PERA, which is that it has a COLA, an almost unheard of benefit in private sector pensions.  State employees do very well with their pensions, but they have to retire to get them.  While they work, they get mediocre pay and crappy benefits. Still, that’s life.  At my company a few years back we took a 4 percent wage cut followed by a five-year wage freeze.  But we saved the company and our jobs, so it was worth it.

  50. If you all think State employees have it so great, why don’t you all try to get a State job and work for your home State?  Be a civil servant.  See how wonderful it is.  Do you have any family, friends, neighbors or so that work for the State of CO?  Ask them how great it is.  I agree that PERA is a very nice thing to have.  To be honest, it is the ONE AND ONLY reason I still work for the State.  Benefits and pay are horrible.  Morale is below the freezing point.  There are so many people quitting and retiring that there are not enough people to fill the positions that open up.  I would encourage all of you to try to work for the State and report back to me 6 months later.  The reality is quite different than what you all envision it to be.  I know there is no way for me to ‘win’ this debate, however, I feel State employees do not have a voice and are not heard.  State employee unions do not really exist anymore.  I am also thankful to have a job.

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